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Different rule types used for policies #764
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Yes this is problematic from the operator side. The point of having a standard is that consumers can build a standard implementation that works everywhere. In this case operators need to build logic into their ingest that is specific to the endpoint they are ingesting from, and manage that logic alongside the rest of their integration, keeping it updated as aggregators make changes. In general the more degrees of freedom allowed for "agencies" the more complex the operator implementations will become. |
The plan is for the MDS WG to write some consensus-driven guidance mapping use-cases to how that use case should canonically be implemented. |
For point 2 Populus doesn't have strong feelings for having one type of rules versus another. It would not be difficult for us to adapt to whatever the group consensus turns out to be. @quicklywilliam, @S-eb your thoughts on this? |
I wonder if it would be best to add some sort of "prohibited" rule type, rather than implying something is prohibited via a count or time? This might be a lot more intuitive/explicit and evidently covers several major use cases. |
Yes @marie-x this is why the issue is posted here, to support this consensus |
@jean-populus similar state of mind. We are open to adapt if required. Now there’s difference between rules types so might be interesting to discuss which rule type fit best a given use case |
Great you bring this up, @jyeo17 ! Imho, (and as we implement in DB Curbside Management), I see different aspects which the regulation focuses on, resulting in the different rule types:
Thus, for DB Curbside Management (which is not on your list (yet) ;) )
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Thank you all for your comments and input.
So, by specifying the definitions of the use cases, we have the recommendations below:
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While I unserstand that |
@mrsimpson Thanks a lot for your comment! Here our understanding of “time’ is amount of time spent by a device in a given state. |
The above table is really helpful and I think the interpretations given are very reasonable. That said, I agree with @mrsimpson that using My suggestion is that we take this opportunity to make the Policy API more explicit and use-case driven, such as adding a |
We will be discussing this at tomorrow's working group meeting. |
@S-eb sorry for taking so long to respond – it took me a while to clear my
After two days of picking my words carefully, I'd kindly reply "that depends how you look at it". If you mean "Is this a change for the better and does it make policies easier to interpret" I'd say "hell no!" ;) Currently, the rule rules have feature a I do think we really have to decide about the target audience of an mds policy document.
I hope I could make sense with writing that – it's a bit tricky for me as a non-native writer to find the right words, but I tried my best. @schnuerle I'll take your statement as an invitation and will try to attend tomorrow's meeting |
I'd like to take a step back and see if we have consensus on the Use Case Definitions in #764 (comment) because this will inform our thinking on speed vs time and using prohibitive rules. Are the Use Case Definitions how most municipalities and providers are interpreting these rules? In particular No Parking means Vehicles should not be in the area regardless of status. |
We will be talking about this at this week's MDS meeting. |
We discussed in our development team what is really the problem that different applications map use cases differently into rules. |
So it seems like we have consensus on everything except for the No Ride rule. For the No Ride the description should be broadened to be -
Which covers the two use cases discussed during the call
If we want to have just a single
So that leave |
Lacuna is (for now) using |
I still can't understand how one can count the process of riding: Riding something is a process (movement over time), it can be measured as speed. What would be counted? What would a "count" rule for a no riding look like? And how would it be differentiated from a no-operating-area for a particular provider (which is obviously a very different thing to regulate)? Can you please elaborate on that? In the call, a representative of an operator (William?) also brought up the fact that preventing a ride is technically sanctioned on the vehicle => Speed rules would be deployed to the vehicle so it can safely reduce the speed (at most to 0) when entering a no ride area. To me, this is a very strong pro for implementing "no ride" as speed. That leaves the issue that speed does not address that the vehicle should also not be parked (bullet point 2. on @jean-populus 's list). I strongly recommend that this is expressed as a second rule (of Any objections on this approach? |
You can count vehicles that are Parking in a No Ride zone isn't how the majority of cities are implementing this policy so I recommend we use |
After all these discussions, it seems like the agreement that we have come to is:
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Resolved with #786 |
After investigation of the 11 use cases on #752, we have found that amongst the different companies (Ride Report, Populus, Vianova, Blue Systems), different rule types are used for the Operating Area/ No Riding and No Parking/ Required Parking policies.
This poses the question to operators if
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